Seite 2 von 2 ErsteErste 12 LetzteLetzte
Ergebnis 16 bis 30 von 30

Thema: Free Tibet

  1. #16
    untersommer

    Beiträge
    52.631

    Re: Free Tibet

    Zitat Zitat von Bierstandszene
    Ob wir hier diskutieren oder in Peking platzt ein Sack Reis...
    Quasi ein Argument, das fuer 90% aller Beitraege in diesem Forum gilt, also...?

  2. #17
    Echo-Werder

    Beiträge
    3

    Re: Free Tibet

    Sports should not be simplely connected with politics.
    Many people are passionate to discuss about "Tibet Issue", but how many among them have been to Tibet? And how many of them ever met a real Tibetan citizen and talked to him/her? (I mean real common citizens that live in Tibet, not only the old aristocrats.) If a person knows nothing about Tibetan culture and history, how could he make rational judgement about Tibet? When he criticise Chinese government, has he ever thought of the innocent victims died in the disaster made by Tibetan separatists?
    Admittedly, China still has a long way to go with its democratical governance, but WE ARE TRYING. We just need time. You can imagine how hard to handle such a huge country with 1,3 bilion people. If you have chances, welcome to China to see the facts by your own eyes and make the comments with your own mind.

    Since it's difficult for me to say things above in German, I have to type them in English, but I think most of you could understand, right? As a Werder Fan as you all, I really hope that this forum could be a relaxing place to discuss our beloved club, but not for politics. Coz the truth is far more complicated then you see.

  3. #18
    Pushi

    Beiträge
    372

    Re: Free Tibet

    I think this Olympic Games in Beijing are the best example for the fact that you can not talk about sports without talking about politics. Give me just one example that is in your eyes an "unpolitical" fact/situation/circumstance in sports.
    There are so many big political moments in the history of Olympia (1936 Nazi-Olympia, 1980 boycotting the games in Moscow, 1968 The Black Panther-Fists...). There is absolutely no reason for denying that talking about sports means talking about politics. Especially with the fact that the sports are globalizing and commercializing in these days as they have never before...!


    P.

  4. #19
    Echo-Werder

    Beiträge
    3

    Re: Free Tibet

    Of course OG involves some political elements, but it's unrational to connected sports and politics simply as I said. Tibetan issue is complicated, for it deals with a long history of Tibet and Chinese central governance. I've been to Tibet and have friends from Tibet at school, my understanding is based on my knowledge as a Chinese native and personal experiences in Tibet.

    Well importantly, my point is not to deny the potential political influence brought by big sports event, but to suggest more pure focus on sport or OG itself and Werder. It seems a littele strange to see such a typical political topic appearing in a board of incoming sports event. You know after all, it's a football fan-forum, but not a 'Political Corner'~

    Besides, as a volunteer of the OG, I really believe that 2008 OG would be an enjoyable sports fest for all of you, although in some aspects we're not that professional, for it's the first time for us to hold such big event.

  5. #20
    MaxUnknown

    Beiträge
    71.718

    Re: Free Tibet

    The whole world is talking about the Tibet issue, so are we The actual events are the main topic, but thinking about the side effects is common here. You can also find a lot of other politicial discussions as well as talks about music, movies and other stuff here. Werderfans are pretty versatile.

  6. #21
    Pushi

    Beiträge
    372

    Re: Free Tibet

    My point of view seems completely different from yours because I'm interested in these discussions or subjects that stand in relation to sports, to football, to Werder. In-Between-Subjects like:

    - What are the reasons for actual developments in sports?
    - How does globalization change sports?
    - How does economization change the sports?
    - How do fans or clubs deal with actual political developments?

    and so on.
    When you look at the current Diego-conflict, these are exactly the questions we have to discuss! It's so much a political thing to think about the circumstance that there is something like a brasilian mentality that is very different from a german when you talk about the meaning of Olympia! Or to think about the fact that the FIFA didn't put the Olympic Games in the Rahmenterminkalender (don't know the english word for it - sorry). I think that just this Diego-case is a very good example for the undenyable connection between sports and politics.


    P.

  7. #22
    Echo-Werder

    Beiträge
    3

    Re: Free Tibet

    okay, I see your point.
    As I said before, I don't deny the connection between sports and politics. I think our divarication is that your interest is more abstract and wide, a little bit like topics of paper... But I'm only talking about the Tibetan Issue itself. You know we Chinese are used to be besieged by critics from other regions during our country's development, but why are we so exasperated by this issue? That's because we're angry with the carefree comments made by some foreigners, who knows little about China and oversees the deaths caused by Tibetan separatists as well.

    Turn to Diego's case, it's also under heated discussion among Chinese Werder Fans. Don't you think his case is more related to the relationship between international organizations? But When we talk about Tibet, it obviously belongs to our nation's interior affairs. Assume that I have a quarrel with my parents, how could one neighbor, who is not familiar with us, simply determine that who is right and who is wrong?

    So in conclusion, I said that the OG IS connected with politics, coz indeed China treats it as a chance to introduce itself to the whole world. But not with the Tibetan Issue. I'll always insist that judgement should be made only based on facts got by own eyes, but not only the words from the media.

  8. #23
    6uellerbelästigungspanda

    Beiträge
    2

    Re: Free Tibet

    Leider ist mein Englisch nicht so gut: Echo Werder (hope you understand german), es wird immer Menschen geben, die nur aufgrund gewisser Schlagzeilen sich ein Urteil bilden. Es kann ja nicht sein, daß jeder sich jetzt ein Jahr in Tibet aufgehalten haben muß, um dann ein qualitativ höherwertiges Urteil abzugeben. 90% aller Diskussionen würden dann nicht geführt werden (wobei ich nicht weiß, ob das nicht sogar besser wäre.)
    Als ganz normaler Medienkonsument sehe ich derzeit die Tibetproblematik gar nicht mehr ganz oben auf der Agenda der Berichterstattung. Was mich eher berührt, ist der Eindruck, daß in China eine Armada von Ordnungskräften (welcher Art auch immer) die Bevölkerung vor unbedarften Äußerungen gegenüber einer anderen Armada von Journalisten "schützen" will oder muß. Das kann nur in die Hose gehen und erinnert stark (falls das noch jemand kennt) an die alte DDR, in der sich die Stasi ggü. westlichen Reportern auch zu keiner Peinlichkeit zu Schade war.

  9. #24
    untersommer

    Beiträge
    52.631

    Re: Free Tibet

    @Echo-Werder:
    Why do you deny people's right to have an opinion on what you call "the Tibetan issue"? Just because people might have never been to Tibet? Besides the fact that this is pure assumption, even being to Tibet these days wouldn't really help to develop a view in either direction. You presume our view might be pre-determined by "the media", I would say your view in that case is just as pre-determined by "the other media". You say you talked to Tibetan people, so did I. You say you talked to Chinese people, so did I. What's the difference between you and me then? That you might have been to the Tibetan territory. You can't be serious.
    I am pretty sure that after reading the tons of information that are available on the conflict people should be able to determine themselves on what their opinion on the conflict is. Even without being there or ever having been there. The basis of that conflict is way older than we all are, so following your idea would actually mean denying even your own right to have an opinion as you were not there during the last century either...when agreements were signed or not signed, when monasteries were destroyed, when people were killed by whomever for whatever cause.
    I disagree with your idea that this conflict is a China owned interior problem, but even if I wouldn't people clearly have the right to have an opinion on this conflict and to voice that opinion. Voicing one's opinion doesn't necessarily mean to interfere with somebody else's very own interest as you like to call it. We call that democracy.

  10. #25
    Gast

    Re: Free Tibet

    Talking about human rights in China is much more important than the issue of Tibet. I have been to China last year and it is not very hard to see that a single life does not count a lot. If the Tibetians would be better of with their religous leaders like the Schmunzelmonster is not sure at all. The people of China or Tibet have never been free before and the best way to free Tibet is to free China.

    But the reason why I write in this thread was something different. My friend Marcel Reich-Raniecki was just asked in tagesthemen about his opinion about the Olimpic Games in China and if the IOC was right to give the games to China. He said with many words that he won't comment on that because he does not know enough about China and there are already to many people talking about things they do not understand. That was the best comment on the China debate I heard in the last months.

  11. #26
    Gast

    Re: Free Tibet


  12. #27
    dizzy

    Beiträge
    9.752

    Re: Free Tibet

    Rharbarbar Rharbarbar... is ja schön, wenn die Deutschen und die deutschen Medien das alles so interessiert und wichtig finden... so lange es keinen Chinesen juckt, sollte man sich da auch nicht überheblich und Groß-Lehrerhaftig aufspielen...

    Ansonsten: Tibet gehört zu China. Ist einfach so. Wenn es dem ein oder anderen nicht passt, dann eben nicht... aber bisschen mehr Toleranz und Akzeptanz wäre schon angebracht.


    Den X-tra3-Bericht hab ich auch gesehen. Sagt aber nicht wirklich viel aus... außer, dass man stolz ist, die chinesische Zensur bislang umgangen zu haben.


    Na herzlichen Glückwunsch! Hier gilt generell: Wenn man keine Ahnung hat, einfach mal die Fresse halten und sich nicht überall einmischen wollen.

  13. #28
    Gast

    Re: Free Tibet

    ---

  14. #29
    Rulli Hoeller

    Beiträge
    1.896

    Re: Free Tibet

    "Free Tibet" - solche CIA-Parolen sollte man besser nicht verbreiten. Viele wissen wohl gar nicht, dass die CIA bis in die 70er den Guerilla-Krieg der Exil-Tibeter mit Training, Ausrüstung, Waffen und Geld von Nepal aus unterstützte. Die Tibet-Lobby wird mit Millionen Dollar gefördert. Warum wohl, hm?

    Und die Begeisterung für den Feudalherren Daila Lama ist auch sonderbar. Die gleichen Leute, die ihn als spirituellen Friedensfürsten verehren, wenden sich vom Papstum ab. Dabei ist die Institution des Dalai Lama wesentlich politischer und dekadenter als der Petrusstuhl in Rom.

  15. #30
    untersommer

    Beiträge
    52.631

    Re: Free Tibet

    Eine relativ gewagte These...

    Unabhaengig davon erfolgt die Vermischung von Dalai Lama Kult und Tibet in erster Linie durch die herkoemmliche Ayurveda-Reformhaus-Esoterik-Theater Fraktion. Jeder, der sich halbwegs intensiv mit dem Thema auseinandersetzt, kann da sehr wohl unterscheiden. Im Uebrigen muss eine Free Tibet (um mal bei dieser Nomenklatur zu bleiben) Einstellung noch lange keine Pro Dalai Lama Einstellung sein. Das ist genauso eindimensional gedacht wie der Habitus, den Du anderen Leuten zurecht vorwirfst.

Seite 2 von 2 ErsteErste 12 LetzteLetzte

Berechtigungen

  • Neue Themen erstellen: Nein
  • Themen beantworten: Nein
  • Anhänge hochladen: Nein
  • Beiträge bearbeiten: Nein
  •